Dimple mats on the floor are pointless when the space could be occupied by poly and rigid foam for a better end result. I'm putting up rigid foam ( 3/4 rigid foam sheathing , bc studs already up, can't find 1" and don't have enough space for the 2" on basement wall. Are there other options beside inorganic individual tiles? (If you aren't sure whether your slab has insulation underneath, you can drill a hole through the concrete to inspect what's under there. Moisture in Concrete and Moisture-sensitive Finishes and Coatings. If I was to tile the whole space, are you suggesting I do EPS + plywood + cement board then tile? Choosing material for a basement floor is tricky. My house is a 4 level split, built in 1993. To read about a successful use of EPS for this type of job, see Green Basement Renovation. Response to Gary Nussbaumer "Would you prioritize keeping the layer of XPS over the Delta mat if I have to choose?". Any engineered flooring product must be installed according to the manufacturer's recommendations. Q. With toughness and superior quality on their side, these tiles are also geared for long-termuse, ensuring the best return on your investment. If you need more ceiling height for proper drainage systems, vapor barriers, rigid foam, and flooring, the best solution is to demolish the existing slab and to lower the dirt floor by removing soil. Would a finish concrete floor slab be more cost effective than subfloor+tile? Thanks for your very informative site, you make our lives easier by not having to redo what we thought was the right thing to do. "B. Calcium Chloride Test Ceramic and natural stone floor tiles can be installed in most any room; however, they are most commonly used in kitchens and bathrooms. Otherwise, the slab will be damp during the summer. Response to Lisa Weber Greg, We do not heat it in the winter until we start using it, usually first of March. I'm working on a project where we're needing to match an existing floor height. Q. If your basement slab lacks sub-slab insulation, youll need to install some rigid foam above your slab -- especially if you decide to install carpeting. But foam insulation is a better choice. Response to Martin Holladay When warm, moist air from your home connects with the cold concrete floor in your basement, a dampness is created which allows cold to be conducted through your uninsulated floor boards. Thank you for the quick response! The Green Roof is open to the public via the fifth-floor cafeteria and serves as an outdoor patio for both employees and visitors alike. This is more work than most homeowners would feel is necessary, however. Cheaper? I do hope you make an exception for wine cellars. If you keep the basement humidity levels in check, you should be fine. I recently installed a perimeter drain with a sump pump and would now like to finish the basement. If I do a finish concrete floor, how would I seal the finish concrete slab around the perimeter? Is there any flooring product that can go directly over the rigid foam insulation on the floor? It probably wouldn't hurt to support the toilet and bathtub with a few lengths of pressure-treated lumber (installed as sleepers, replacing some of the rigid foam). Thanks. I think a layer of EPS rigid foam and a plywood subfloor is money well spent. Any thoughts on that concern? I've been reading through these very informative comments but none fully addresses our situation. You would have to step down 2+ inches off the insulated floor, and then back up 8 inches onto the first step? Yes, it will negate some of your efforts -- because it will act as a thermal bridge allowing heat to bypass the insulation on the rest of the floor. While the slab doesn't need to dry, this can help prevent materials from developing mold. Still, there are a few choices that strike a The traditional solution is to buildyour own su Signs of higher end original construction (custom woodwork and probable asbestos tiles!). Dimple Flooring as a BEE compliant company that has been producing top quality flooring since 2001. I'm not sure what Climate Zone you are in, but walkout basement floors tend to be particularly cold near the above grade area of the basement and some insulating value will make the finished spaces more comfortable. A layer of 6 mil poly with the 2.5 " xps installed over top with all edge foamed and taped. The DRY-UP Dimple Board can also provide a barrier on exterior basement walls preventing soil and moisture from touching the foundation walls. BTW, a few tiling contractors thought that the XPS would not be rigid enough over time to prevent flexing, which was another concern, but I am very happy to hear that you think I could lay tile over this. 10mm or more laminate can be installed over this , offer at HD, but needs to be special order. For instance, I did not include a vapor barrier between the XPS and the concrete, as many suggested, because as I understood this, the XPS allows for diffusion. Do the same requirements apply in terms of moisture passing through the slab if I was to install the EPS + plywood you mentioned earlier in the thread (and finish with carpet or vinyl flooring)? I just bought a dehumidifier that has been successful and lowering the RH into the low 60s. What is the process for this? Is there an advantage to using epoxy on the cement first if placing wood sleepers directly on the cement? Check out the installation instructions for the flooring materials you are interested in installing. And in most situations, EPS or XPS will be enough of a vapor retarder to eliminate any vapor diffusion worries. Basement remodel in Climate zone 5. If you want to delve deeply into this issue, here are some more links: Are your slabs dry enough for floor coverings? Does the OSB need to be fastened to the concrete, can it just float for possible future serviceability and fastener savings and labor. My family has a house with a walk-out basement, built in the 1990s, with good drainage, built on sand. The membrane provides a significantly more comfortable floor. Vinyl flooring on top of the subfloor creates a potential moisture trap, with the moisture susceptible subflooring between the sub-slab poly and the extremely low permeance vinyl. I was hoping to glue the tongue and groove sheets seams together and use a pc of heavy weight sheet metal as a butt joint backer. So you should direct your question to the technical department of the flooring manufacturer. You bet. We live outside Boston in an 1880 home with a fieldstone foundation, a somewhat uneven poured concrete floor, and 80" to the ceiling joists. Walls will have 3.5" spray foam but the floor is problematic, as we don't feel we can lose more than about 1.5" total for the flooring. Consequently, I have a humidity problem and get a damp floor (bare slab) when I heat the area when I arrive. We want to do the kitchen and bathroom in tile or stone and the rest of the area in wall-to-wall carpet, he writes in a Q&A post at Green Building Advisor. when the sit on the concrete floor. As you may have guessed, I already bought the vinyl flooring and am deciding whether to eat the $500 restocking fee and the discussion with my wife and go with another product. There are two types of potential water problems in a basement, GBA Senior Editor Martin Holladay says. I have never installed any type of finish flooring directly over foam, so I'm not sure of the answer. ThermalDry Basement Floor Systems are designed to stand up to tough basement conditions and provide many years of worry-free, low-maintenance performance. I live in central Minnesota (climate zone 6). Get a Free Estimate All ThermalDry flooring tiles share the same 12-in.-square shape and snap-together design. Response to Fred Zheng Darcy, Response to Darcy Grant Martin, I'm planning to use the floor assembly that you describe over an existing slab (floor leveler, delta dimple mat, 1 inch xps foam, subfloor, floating wooden floor) but I don't know what to do in the the utility room that has an ft. area during a 24-hour period. I would love to save a 1/4 inch and use 3/4 inch foam. For a warm and comfortable basement, choose the Dorken DELTA-FL Subfloor. A portion of the basement has already been finished using 1.5" EPS foam and 3/4" plywood. Using a Dimple Mat to Keep a Basement Wall Dry. Basement Build-Out Flooring Prep +1 on planning for a "dry" basement to get wet. And towards the end of the original article Scott Gibson says "Headroom is an issue, but with as little as 1/2 inch of poly-faced EPS foam insulation plus plywood would sharply reduce the chance of mold growth." That is, when the drying starts the whole concrete structure is filled with water, or else the whole concrete structure is 95 percent RH.". Greg, Does it matter much EPS vs, XPS as long as I get enough R value as Dana discussed? If your budget is so tight that you have to cut corners, you need a higher appetite for risk. Find flooring underlayment at Lowe's today. Response to Daniel Hatch Q. or less. Hi Martin. Or could the thinset be used to level out the floor? The classic valve has been manufactured by Watts Valves for decades -- the good old Watts #2. Whether or not you like the look of polyurethaned luaun plywood as finish flooring is an entirely personal decision. This measurement is stated as pounds of moisture over a 1,000 sq. "The only thing that I'm trying to wrap my head around is the possibility that the bare concrete floor is negating some of our efforts to super insulate and air seal the house.". This allows the concrete to breathe while keeping the floor dry. Thanks. Overflowing toilets, pipe leaks, etc. (3) Would you consider using a product like DMX Airflow (R-value of 1.9)? My questions are: Will this work? It's fine to install a second layer of polyethylene on top of the concrete slab. If you know that to be the case in your home, you don't need more poly above the slab. (4) If you did use DMX airflow or something similar, would it be ok to use a vinyl floating floor/would the expansion gaps around the product allow enough moisture to be removed by the dehumidifier? I live in the Seattle area and would like to know what you suggest for underlayment for the following: 2) I would like to install perhaps some sort of vinyl plank flooring in the main room. John, my office floor is polyurethaned fir plywood, ripped into 12" strips to resemble a real wood floor. Usually, installers choose between one of two approaches: 1. So will your slab, unless your builder installed a polyethylene vapor barrier between the dirt and your slab. I read in comment #2 and #11 you said "If you dont want to lose the height required for rigid foam, you could try installing a dimpled subfloor product like Delta-FL." Consult the manufacturer if the instructions that came with the product are unclear. James, Response to Michael Ashooh Existing concrete basement floor is dry but no poly below. Codes generally consider a landing as part of the stair, so it would need the same riser depth. I have an existing finished basement that I want to renovate in order to add insulation to walls and floor (currently no floor insulation and carpeted, and walls have batt and poly). The low landing might extend out a bit to make it work. I am assuming that tile cannot be laid over this flooring, and I don't want to use vinyl, but do you have other suggestions? I'll be refinishing a portion of my walk-out basement as a workshop. The foam provides a barrier, separating the colder soil and the warmer basement atmosphere. ", Another article notes, "Interestingly, one case study found it took rewetted, mature concrete with a water-cement ratio of 0.07, drying from one side 515 days, to reach 85% internal RH. Neither EPS nor XPS will become saturated in this location, with or without a layer of polyethylene, unless the basement floods. The EPS seems cheaper, but it won't accept tape as well as XPS for sealing all the seams. The Calcium Chloride Test measures the quantity of moisture passing through a concrete floor. Polyethylene Film Test Why 2 Layers of Plywood Would using something like the Delta FL help? The existing basement slab is retrofitted by installing a dimple plastic drainage mat, rigid foam insulation, and a floating subfloor. For the most part a very low traffic in a dry conditioned storage area. I didn't say it would be ideal :-) Possibly a trip hazard unless laid out carefully. Floor Heating Response to Gary Nussbaumer Would I just pour the concrete directly to the plastic dimple mat? When you put even R4 between a slab in a sub-45F subsoil area the susceptible subfloor & flooring will be much closer to the room temp than the subsoil temp, and that problem goes away. I was concerned with both hardwood underlayments and tile would have very low permeability, lower than the XPS anyway, and so trap vapor in the plywood. Sorbus Wood Grain Floor Mats Foam Interlocking Mats Tile 3/8-Inch Thick Flooring Wood Mat Tiles Borders - Home Office Playroom Basement Trade Show 4.3 out of 5 stars 1,278 $43.99 $ 43 . If you intend to finish your basement, and your basement slab lacks sub-slab insulation, youll need to install some rigid foam above your slab. I will certainly follow the install guidelines for the products I choose. Four, I will have 2br, a family room and bathroom. does the OSB layer need to be fastened to the concrete or can it float on top? I don't think there is any legal way around re-building it. (2) Would you put blown-in insulation into the basement walls under any circumstances other than the window pockets (West wall has three windows and an exterior door)? The correct way to insulate a concrete slab is with rigid foam. "Are fixtures normally installed over top of this subfloor system?". If your subfloor is adequately screwed to the underlying concrete, I see no reason why tile flooring couldn't be installed over the plywood subfloor. Unlike inferior products which separate unless glue is used, Dimples floor tiles do not pull apart. If you are severely limited on headroom, you might consider gluing down a permeable flooring such as cork tiles. Even the newer poured epoxy floors will form large and unsightly bubbles if the slab is ever exposed to moisture. Q. If I did a finish tile floor, do you recommend using a leveling concrete first, then EPS, then subfloor and tile? It's definitely risky to put an impervious flooring directly over concrete. Am I wrong? to install the XPS and plywood, then reinstall the fixtures on top?". construction details. So the second layer would overlap the the seams of the first. "I am assuming that tile cannot be laid over this flooring.". I was thinking about doing carpet in those areas, (mostly comfort for kids) but with an underlying system like rigid foam, and then ??? Laundry room has newer tile and feels cold. 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